Curse

Neo-LD · Jul 15, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

This build is not designed to go for MAX UBAH damage. It is designed to be a steady and lethal asset to the team, while being exceedingly resistant to normal warrior counters.

W/Me

12+4 Axe Mastery
12+1 Strength
2 Inspiration Magic
2 Domination Magic

Cleave {E}
Swift Chop
Wild Blow
Sprint
Griffons Sweep
Hex Breaker
Drain Enchantment
Resurrection Signet

It packs some high damage in the compact form of cleave. Swift Chop and Griffons Sweep add to this damage, but are also effective if they miss. Thus dodging and blinding are not so effective against this guy. Hex Breaker can keep annoying stuff like soothing images and spiteful spirit off your back, and doenst even need any points in domination to be effective. Wild Blow can cancel any defensive stance they try to use, and Drain Enchantment can get rid of protective buffs on your target, while maintaning high energy for your attacks. Res Sig and Sprint are just necessary.

ElderAtronach · Jul 15, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

In theory it's a good build, but blind will still affect you when using swift chop and griffons sweep. Plus, you don't really see warriors using defensive stances. It's only really good against rangers using whirling defense or something like that. But with rangers, they will throw dirt in your face, so... *shrug* So many warrior counters, but blind is still the #1 killer.

QuixotesGhost · Jul 15, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

In theory it's a good build, but blind will still affect you when using swift chop and griffons sweep. Plus, you don't really see warriors using defensive stances. It's only really good against rangers using whirling defense or something like that. But with rangers, they will throw dirt in your face, so... *shrug* So many warrior counters, but blind is still the #1 killer.

Defensive stances that protect against DAMAGE, like Gladiator's, Beonneti's, Elemental/Physical Resistance, are wasted on a warrior in PvP. A Defensive stance that protects against hexes, however, holy god my friend, worth it's weight in gold on a warrior. Be one of the smart people and instead of going "OMG nerf, nerf! Hexes pownzers the Wars, nerf nerf nerf", do something about it.

Wild Blow is definatly a good idea, well worth taking.

Conditions will be a problem for a W/Me, the two classes that can reliably counted on to stack really painful conditions on a war are going to be Rangers and Elementalists. However I believe condition removal is something you can partially rely on the monk for. I don't believe the same thing about hexes. Conditions are definatly easier to remove than hexes, plus "quick recovery from blind/crippled" items exist, there is no "Quick recovery from empathy". It's always better to bring your own condition remove but W/Mes don't have one, so what are ya gonna do?

One thing to watch for. Sprint and Hexbreaker are both stances. If your target cares enough about you to run then you can be sure that you will be getting his full attention, watch his bar closely and be quick to switch back into hexbreaker, ASAP if you see a Life transfer/Empathy/Imagined Burden/random-screw-over-warriors hex coming up.

Personally I think it's a nice build and definatly better than 90% of warrior builds I see here. You know. The ones that include mending/healing signet/healing breeze then complain that they don't have room for a hex/condition remove.

derrtyboy69 · Jul 15, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

So many warrior counters, but blind is still the #1 killer.

That is definitly true. One time in Random PvP i had a group of 4 warriors, and we were facing 2 warriors, a mesmer, and a Ele/monk cleric. the Cleric was casting uber amounts of blind and healing his allies, and my party was too stupid to attack the Ele first. I kept telling tthem to, but they wouldnt listen. we could hit nothing, and eventually got beaten badly

Zeru · Jul 15, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Actually it's definitely not true.

Ward against melee is definitely the best warrior counter with ward against foes trailing in second. Blind is cured in a couple of sections. Forcing someone out of a chained ward range won't happen and they're not easy to interrupt/keep off either.

It accomplishes your goal well but this isn't a real good build with the current meta-game; save this when more people realize wards are insanely good. And btw pack frenzy in there somewhere. Must-have skill more or less.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 15, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

It's better not to bring to skills that cancel each other out if possible for a Warrior Build.

The Hex Breaker vs. Sprint deal. Quite tricky. Sprint if you must, Hex Break otherwise?

I'd rather go 10+2 Axe, 9+1 str, 10 domination, 7 inspiration. Slightly harder hitting Hex Breaker and a LOT more energy from Drain Enchantment. You can even toy around with different skills should you change your mind. Minimizing weaknesses and such...

Instead of bringing Wild Blow and Griphon's Sweep, I'd stick to Dismember and Axe Rake. Nice conditions to have. Swift Chop is both unblockable and undodgable and the enemies you fight in pvp that use defensive stances aren't all that common. Maybe one or two enemies tops use a stance. So you shouldn't need 3 anti-stance skills. Just some advice. Saving energy for Hex Breaker and Drain Enchantment. Oh yeah...

Res sig. I almost never need res sigs in my builds cause I always have skills to put. For this thing, I don't see any other skills that could make it stronger so yeah, I'd guess res sig would be acceptable for this one. Doesn't hurt its potential either.

Yeah, bring a Blind condition shortener and a mend condition monk and you're going to bring the beef...

Oh wait... Well, if you must keep it fine, but I think Disrupting Chop could take the place of Res Signet. I'm not saying it should, but that'd be me...

ElderAtronach · Jul 15, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

If a team is built around condition spreading with rangers and necro conditions which can be put on your entire team in a matter of seconds, you're going to be blind, poisoned, diseased, weakened, and/or bleeding for quite a while unless one of your monks brought martyr, and that's iffy. Wards aren't as uber as you make them out to be. There's a huge difference between 90% miss and 50% evade. Griffon's sweep and swift chop work in a ward vs melee. They dont work when you're blind. Which was the whole point of my previous post.

EDIT: Yes please pack frenzy too so you can take nice double damage when that fork of chain lightning hits you or that meteor shower lands in your area. The other team would sure appreciate it.

Zeru · Jul 15, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

mend condition/ailment?

Sorry but blind/weakness gets removed fast as those skills can be spammed and it's MUCH harder to put on than to take off. 2/3 monks should have mend at the minimum and 3/3 monks should have remove hex at the minimum.

Wards are godly in efficiency because they cannot be feasibly countered. You can't win an energy war blasting them out with aoe and it's very difficult to shut down. Blind gets countered in seconds.

When to use frenzy and when not to is a key skill that warriors must learn to be good. +50% damage on call is too good to pass up.

Neo-LD · Jul 15, 2005, 11:29 AM // 11:29

But... Frenzy is a stance, and I already have 2 of those

The whole point of going /mes was for hex breaker.

@ Yukito
I must say I disagree with your suggestions for skill replacements. They turn him into a vanilla axe warrior. This guy is based around getting around the usual warrior counters, becasue the ARE very common in PvP.

@ all
From what I can tell, the build can fight through hexes, stances, enchantments, and to some extent blind. The only thing he is really missing is condition removal (which mesmers dont have) and ward removal (whoch no class has). Plus, this guy isnt a monk, he isnt responsiable for removing every sigle possible thing that coould rain on his parade. Monks typically take mend ailment before they will take remove hex. Communicate and you should be able to fight through conditions. During the period you wait for the blind removal, you can still be effective with griffons and swift.

The only other version I can think of for this guy would be a war/nec using plauge touch. That would solve the blind issue. But then he would lose with defense against every single other warrior counter

I like this one best

Kabale · Jul 15, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

What's wrong with Shatter Hex? Not only does it remove a hex, it packs a huge punch on anyone near you, which is likely to be more than 1 person as you are up close to the enemy (this was difficult to do as a Mesmer primary because.. well you just want to stay out of melee range..). Ok, it comes with 15E but surely the damage it does is sufficient. Bring along a defensive stance (Bonetti's) that gains you energy if they miss you and you've got your 15E back.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 15, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Vanilla Warrior? No prob, guess disrupting chop just isn't that good then... *shrug*

15 Energy for a warrior at 2 pips regen is not worth it no matter how you look at it. Drain Enchantment doesn't sound like a bad idea considering that only the REALLY good players use chaff enchants. The majority of players I've seen seem to use only one. Mostly Team/Random Arena. The GvG fights I've had were never against REALLY good guilds... ;_;

And for the record, blind causes unblockable/dodgable skills to miss in any case. Might want to watch out for Weakness too, that sucker spreads like a plague.

This warrior trancends some limits, but no warrior can transcend all of them... The closest I came up with was a non hex/conditionable W/Mo and even then, they have energy issues.

ICURADik · Jul 15, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

No Blackout or Diversion?

The Only King · Jul 18, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I also have used W/Me and have had great success. I use domination in Choas Storm and Empathy Endure Pain, Defy Pain (Armor Boost and life) usally Shields Up (deflect Attacks%). I may start out ranged with a rare Domination + skill cane or just melee with a Rare Max Sword or Axe either with desired Mods, if blinded switch to spells and continue to Dmg target recover and kill. Endure or Defy Pain usally will allow me to Tank and outlast suffered conditions and there mana pool. Being aware of there first a second strikes and weakend foes allows me to change target kill them and restart a new attack on whom ever. Warriors on the other teams are being weakend also wait for the right chance and assault them and add Mesmer attack with the warrior stuffs thrown in cripples and crushes there nuts. The ability to switch and weaken with the ranged attacks that do max Dmg and then back to the front line is sweet but the timeing is everthing too since mana 2 can be screwed in the defensive end so you gotta revert to ol' Adrenaline charges....

QuixotesGhost · Jul 18, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

No Blackout or Diversion?

I agree, Blackout is a skill that all W/Mes should try at least once. Diversion strikes me as a bit mana heavy and time intensive for a W/Me, seeing as it's a 2 second cast and will often need to be reapplied if you don't catch the skill you want. Might be doable if you only take adrenaline attack skills.

ICURADik · Jul 18, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I agree, Blackout is a skill that all W/Mes should try at least once. Diversion strikes me as a bit mana heavy and time intensive for a W/Me, seeing as it's a 2 second cast and will often need to be reapplied if you don't catch the skill you want. Might be doable if you only take adrenaline attack skills.

I enjoy hitting those E/mo's casting draw conditions.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 18, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

No Blackout or Diversion?

Blackout and "Fear Me!" make for really, really good shutdown characters.

The first is more energy dependent, but with a build I can cycle it for more than a minute, with 4 second intervals between the Blackouts. The target can get off one skill if it's quick enough, but that's it.

The second is based on adrenaline, but with an axe line and some shouts you can get adrenaline pretty quickly.

Another good skill on a W/Me is Signet of Humility.

Black Raine · Jul 19, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Why does it matter that you are using an axe? Swords attack just as fast and the shouts and stances that increase adrenaline charge is either unlinked or strength related. If it's for the purpose of Cyclone Axe, relying on something like that is a tad iffy.

I'm also currently using a W/Me build.

I use Echo, which is very important in my build.

I have two main skills I use Echo for: Blackout and "Fear me!"

In a group that's not focused on damage spikes, and rather consistency, I use this:
In the beginning of the battle, I use Echo + "Fear me!" + "For great justice!" more to drain some energy. Once their health drops below 50% I use a Final Thrust then cap them off with Blackout so that monk can't survive alone, not to mention my teammates are helping me pound the monk. This combination is the equivalent of draining 3 energy every single hit.

At level 13 tactics, "Fear me!" drains 4 energy.

"For great justice!" Reduces the adrenaline cost to 2 strikes, and with 2 "Fear me!" in one bar, it essentially increases eachother's adrenaline cost by one.

In other words, Every 3 hits I can drain 8 energy or 2.33 energy per hit.

If I'm feeling audacious, I swap in an Arcane Echo and Flurry/ Frenzy into my build and get 3 "Fear me!" going. That is the equivalent of 12 energy per 4 hits or 3 energy per hit. With either stances, I would attack once every .89 seconds which translates into 3.37 energy lost per second (in the *most* ideal situations, which is why I tend not to use this build). 3.37 energy per second translates in 10 arrows of energy degeneration.

If I am in a damage spike intensive group or I am consistently blinded or in certain situations hindering my ability to gain adrenaline, I use this:
I use Echo + Blackout when their HP dips to the 75-50% mark. With level 8 domination magic, Blackout lasts 5 seconds, so for a good 15 seconds, if I can chain the skills properly, I can shutdown a monk, though there are two one second windows that they can cast.

I considered using Diversion before but standing still and watching that bar fill up for 2 seconds makes me cringe.

Neo-LD · Jul 19, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

1) This guy is a damage dealer. Diversion, Fear Me, and Blackout are nice for shutdown characters, but that is not this guy. The point of bringing all these anti-hexes and anti-stances is so he can beat the crud out of you. Blackout and Diversion are good, but work towards a different goal. I think you guys are trying to put a square peg in a round whole by putting those in here.

2) This guy wields an axe for one reason: Cleave. Because I have so many slots taken up in countering my counters, I dont have room for big 4-5 skill combos. I have to take my extra damage in themost compact form I can get it. The low adrenaline, rreliable Cleave suits the bill perfectly.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 19, 2005, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Axe has a interrupt, and sword has an interrupt.
Disrupting Chop > Savage Slash.

And yes, I am talking about Cyclone Axe. And no, depending on it is not iffy, because it's a really quick way to get three or four strikes of adrenaline.

Black Raine · Jul 19, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

1) This guy is a damage dealer. Diversion, Fear Me, and Blackout are nice for shutdown characters, but that is not this guy. The point of bringing all these anti-hexes and anti-stances is so he can beat the crud out of you. Blackout and Diversion are good, but work towards a different goal. I think you guys are trying to put a square peg in a round whole by putting those in here.

2) This guy wields an axe for one reason: Cleave. Because I have so many slots taken up in countering my counters, I dont have room for big 4-5 skill combos. I have to take my extra damage in themost compact form I can get it. The low adrenaline, rreliable Cleave suits the bill perfectly.

LOL so true!

I was just putting that idea out there because Tigris brought it up.

By the by, you can't just say Disrupting Chop > Savage Slash. While it is more powerful, it is more unwieldy.

You can't rely on Cyclone Axe to get you 3-4 adrenaline every single time. There are many times it'll give you 1 and many times it'll give you 4. Although it never hurts to have it in your bar for those few times it does give you 4.